How many listings do we have on the site? So M&A are strategic [33:48]. hendrick motorsports hats; anthemos georgiades net worth Got it. At scale you get to do that and have those teams. Youre supposed to try six things that dont work. I think just up front boundaries before you close the round is super important. So thats how Zumper got started. So for the business, Anthemos, how much capital have you guys raised today? How do you scale like 20 million in revenue to 200 million in revenue and we didnt need the more product set investors because we already have fantastic people at that. Anthemos Georgiades: So Zumper is the vision for the company is to make renting an apartment as easy as booking a hotel. Alejandro: Got it. When you look your cofounders, your team in the eye and you know theyre ready to go and theyre resilient and they come back in to build and try the next thing and youve kind of worked out together this is part of the game. So Id say your first month you spend like getting first, second, third meeting. Were very clear with Axle Springer that we have a lot of consumer scale so a lot of people use our platform on a monthly basis but were still building the [21:55]. Alejandro: Got it. I didnt think that either of them originally. Anthemos Georgiades: Yeah. Your second month you spend getting term sheets and documents signed. Alejandro: Got it. At series B, you got to show product market set across the board with the revenue and then at series C, you got to show real traction and real revenue and a proper P&L. So I saw NEA, Kleiner Perkins, Graylog, Andreesen Horrowitz, just to name a few. A lot of it was completely bottom up. And we were talking about the $46 million round which was the C round, C as in cat and basically what you were talking about I mean what Ive seen is that you guys have shifted a little bit the strategy. I mean your job moves from doing jobs in the first few years. Weve only been working with Axle Springer for four months now but they are fantastic. True to its reputation, Comfortbilt's HP22 pellet stove comes with a heating capacity of 50,000 BTU. So if the story has changed in a way that merits the focus of the company but what is consistent every single time weve raised is that for six months in a row, we had really, really quick growth. Got it. If you guys are Zumper website, you can kind of kind at zumper.com the Contact Us or on Twitter I am just @anthemos, A-N-T-H-E-M-O-S on Twitter and yeah, I respond to people. Alejandro: Got it and before we actually dive in to the journey here, so consulting and business school, this is a few things that I typically hear so from some of our other guests. Everyone filling gaps where they could and it [07:02] fulfilling gaps in to where youre skilled and so I think the most obvious thing to do for that is to hire people with very different skill sets to you that allows you to never really have awkward overlap and egos because everyone is kind of skilled at something very unique. And at one point I just told one I just feel like I want to step on the egg and shoot the chicken because it was so repetitive. Budget in my opinion perhaps should be allocated to something else. A lot of business schools was how to make decisions with imperfect information. And then as we looked at the C round, Axle Springer are fantastic good example [19:59]. We raised like a million dollars in seed money, that was running out so we tried various things that didnt work and I think the fabric of our culture that is still true today when we have a hundred people is built in the dark days and those days where your stuff is not working, your users arent growing, and how you look at your teammates and how you guys turn up on a Monday morning after a really crappy week the week before where maybe someone quit or maybe the metrics went south. He was with HBS 10 years ago. Zumper CEO and co-founder May 2012 Board and Advisor Roles Number of Current Board & Advisor Roles 1 Anthemos Georgiades is the Board Member at Zumper. It is not suppose to be easy. Got it. Stay informed using all the free online rental data out there (like Zumper's national rent report). Hello, everyone, to the DealMakers Show. It was incredibly difficult. You are going to get a bunch of nos so I wouldnt rule people out too early. You know its interesting that you mentioned the chicken and the egg. Yeah. Its a good question. So today, we have another founder and another one that is quite successful in their own paths. I'm so proud of my wife Lucy Georgiades and her cofounder Lindsey Nehls on launching their business Elevate Academy today. Alejandro: Got it. And then at business school, I think the single biggest thing I learned through the case study method which is how they teach it at Harvard Business School but I think its true. I have no experience doing that. anthemos georgiades net worthperpetual futures binance. Try for free at rocketreach.co And then when I moved out to America, Russel was software engineer at Google and I had no technical background so I basically hit up my network for anyone with a technical background living in the US who might be interested in joining and Russel and I really hit it off and he was the perfect cofounder. Youre exactly right. I think if you set these expectations from the very beginning that are super important. Prices can change quickly! And so back to your point, yes, we want investors who are supportive of the fact that we didnt try to monetize the platform for the first three years because it would have created a barrier to entry. For Zumper's Georgiades, many Florida markets, such as Fort Lauderdale, Miami, Orlando, and Tampa, have been the big pandemic winners. Published by at June 13, 2022. Thats your job. It happened but I wouldnt say its like an obvious part. So for Zumper our vision as I mentioned was to make renting an apartment as easy as booking a hotel and so instead of going in with just an idea, I built like a really crappy version of the end game that I wanted to build. So the series B, weve done story now look at how quickly the renters are growing on the platform. So yes, we have a great cap table. So I guess what was the timeline of this C round compared to perhaps your seed round of 2012? And at one point I just told one I just feel like I want to step on the egg and shoot the chicken because it was so repetitive. Likewise. Yes, weve raised $90 million in capital including a series C that we just closed three months ago. Just enter your email below. You rarely have enough data to make the absolutely correct decision and I think a lot of businesses fail especially start ups when they dont make decisions fast enough and in business schools, the case study methods taught me how to feel confident in making decisions without perfect information and how to use data to kind of then review once youve launched, whether it was right or wrong. So in terms of timeline, you were mentioning that the C round, you guys closed this 46 million a couple of months ago. And it is the culture that keeps people here, not the compensation or anything else. Categories . Got it. Anthemos Georgiades is the co-founder and CEO of Zumper, the largest startup in the rental industry, used by more than 26 million renters last year alone. It was like $46 million. They are brilliant about. It was at the time Pat Mapper example almost the same size on consumer but now Zumper is much bigger but we called it like a cheat and your job as the founder is to identify like vertical cheats where overnight you become bigger than your competitors. If you want me to do your fundraising for you, click here. It just really helps to divide and conquer like that while I was meeting new investors again. So Ill read it if anyone tweets anything interesting or if I can be helpful in anyway. So in the first two years, Zumper is now [07:52] $90 million in capital. I think the startups end up wasting a lot of cash that could really extend runway but thats a different conversation. It was not something Ive really ever thought about before. Alejandro: Got it. And so I finally just gave in and thought no one is going to build this. So it was never I want to be an entrepreneur journey. So thats how Zumper got started. I mean if you could give some kind of like tips you know both fronts it would be really fantastic. Saying that, in the early days you kind of need to bring on all the capital that you can. Your job as the CEO and the founder is to convince your investors of the reason to do this. Oh yeah, on the seed round back in 2012, we had probably five investors come in to the seed round so we kind of had five yeses who put in small checks. I didnt think that either of them originally. Well, today's guest noticed that experience and wanted to improve it. It has to be me and thats how I started the company six years ago after business school. I know entrepreneurs who spend nine months raising their rounds which is a long time but they got great rounds done. All of it is going to be important and it will come out at the right stage. So when you go in to a fundraising in terms of preparation the most important thing is that your last six months are great and your most important metrics are all growing really nicely so kind of five, six months in a row that is a fantastic story to tell to an investor. It was always a man, there is a really tough problem that consumers experience and no one is solving it. It was kind of [31:51] as early as we did to buy another stock up that was kind of four years in. Everyone in Boston, everyone in New York were straight nos and [25:15] didnt get second meetings but then a month later we came to Silicon Valley and we found a much better product market set for the kind of investor who was prepared to come early and invest early and we got a lot of yeses very quickly. He had actually interviewed me for a job at a different consulting firm and we stayed in touch. Like many of our most successful entrepreneurs, Anthemos Georgiades was drawn into startup life to solve a burning problem. The second one is have a vision and a mission that people agree with and we all wanted to [37:13] this vision make renting an apartment as easy as booking a hotel. Alejandro: Got it. Culture is everything and so investing in people making sure I as the CEO spend a lot of time as much as possible with people who dont report to me is absolutely critical and that is ultimately like the fabric on how most companies are run. Like what have you seen that really works? And your cap table I mean as I was reviewing I just felt as I was looking at the Oscars of Silicon Valley, the red carpet. You know its interesting that you mentioned the chicken and the egg. All photos courtesy of Forbes Councils members. Had worked at the Boston Consulting Group. So seed, series A, series B, series C, I was always the point person in the fundraise. Anthemos Georgiades is the CEO and co-founder at Zumper. So yes, we have a great cap table. Vishal Makhijani President & COO. So Id say your first month you spend like getting first, second, third meeting. So tell me your story a little bit here, Anthemos. Absolutely. But was drawn in to it just to solve a problem as I think so many entrepreneurs are. Yeah. And even though that sounds so obvious six years later, people just werent doing this in 2011, 2012 and we created a bunch of data that overwhelming shows the renters wanted to be applying for apartments from their phone. You just get to this kind of motion of you all feel the same and you kind of pull in the same direction. So I guess lets say we had the opportunity to put you in front of your younger self, Anthemos, in 2012 before you were to close that seed round, what would be that piece of advice that you would give to your younger self with everything that youve learned having this journey ahead of you? So how did you meet your cofounders? Well, Anthemos, it has been a pleasure to have you on the show. Over time, its great to be able to bring in your team. How flat is the company? Anthemos Georgiades: Yeah, I think its probably the DNA of your culture is I think a lot of it is built in the tough times. Anthemos Georgiades: Yeah. Its not about the ski trips and any of that you know. And it is the culture that keeps people here, not the compensation or anything else. I learned more from you than you learned from me, and then your job as CEO is to do kind of two or three things, that is to continue to advance like the vision and the mission of the company and keep everything strategically aligned. We love our investors. So you know I think Axle Springer very used to appraising companies that match their scale. Its a Greek name, British accent. So I think three months is an efficient round. In terms of the dynamics, I think in the early days, you kind of through osmosis graduate towards like the things that are important. Now my cofounders were phenomenal in bringing them to meetings. Of course. I really enjoyed it and great stuff. It was not something Ive really ever thought about before. Its a Greek name, British accent. At series A, you got to show product market set in a sub vertical. I guess the question that I would ask you and perhaps some advice for some of those that are listening, that are building a business that is more around the network effects, the marketplaces, should they walk the other way if the investor is asking too much about revenue early on on the financing cycles? And so when you think about AB testing frameworks, you think about how many started [03:43] that is a [03:44] grad school taught me. And so I wouldnt be too pressured. Could you meet him? And so whereas that doesnt guarantee any success we obviously have to have really good numbers and a really good story to tell them. Alejandro: Alrightee. You look at your cofounders and you know that they understand that and that theyre not freaking out, that is where you build real institutional culture and then you try and grow that across the team. I mean your job moves from doing jobs in the first few years. We want investors who look at $100 million in revenue as table stakes but they wont agree to a billion. And frankly, the process is a pain in the ass. And were they like obviously now youre opening here the cap table to a different breed and I guess when that happen probably at a strategic level lets say from a board perspective or something you know, maybe you receive some type of recommendations whether it was with this corporation or with other corporations as to what perhaps to look for and what to avoid. Got it. Now we have supply so the six months curve at the series B was all about users and millions of monthly users and then at the series C it was much more revenue curve. It is not suppose to be easy. Ill set the first couple of meetings often alone but its been wonderful as weve grown our executive team to be able to bring like our VP of sales, our head of grow, our CPO in to the meetings afterwards when they want to meet the team. ! Anthemos was an undergrad at Oxford when he noticed how problematic renting an apartment . Anthemos Georgiades: Yeah. You are going to get a bunch of nos so I wouldnt rule people out too early. So one is weve always promoted within so whenever we needed a role, we always prefer to promote someone instead of hiring from outside. Now we have supply so the six months curve at the series B was all about users and millions of monthly users and then at the series C it was much more revenue curve. Get 5 free searches. Unluckily weve made some phenomenal early hires so the company that have all scaled to leadership roles, thats fantastic for retention because those people know that we could have hired from outside but we bet on them and it worked and so Zumper is a place to build theyre career not somewhere else. Got it. How does the day to day at Zumper work? [06:54] the early days and it worked where there was just all hands to the pump. We also actually had a really wonderful fourth cofounder whos no longer with us. His passion for relieving the stress for others in . So Anthemos, theres always a first time and you know I guess this is the first time in the history of the DealMakers Show that Im able to interview someone that has been involve on the M&A but more on the buy side. Thats quite motivating for people. Got it. Alejandro: Got it. That is where your focus is and even though you kind of missed doing some of the stuff and the weeds and my team continue to tell me to get away from the weed and continue to [36:12] the 50,000 set, you have to let it go and trust your team to do a better job than you were doing. We both had ideas to be entrepreneurs but neither of us have the guts to actually go for it. Anthemos Georgiades is the co-founder and CEO of Zumper. But oh we must have had like 20 persons or 20 people say not now or later. Absolutely. My friend have had to camp out overnight outside the property management office to get access to the new apartment and this is [01:09] you know things coming online, you can order a cab via phone, you can book a hotel online. Thiel was the first angel investor in Facebook with a $500K check that turned into more than $1 billion in cash. To give you odds, at the seed stage and the series A stage of growth cuts, all about supply side where a two sided marketplace chicken an egg, on day zero you have no renters and no landlords, how do you solve that? So I guess lets say we had the opportunity to put you in front of your younger self, Anthemos, in 2012 before you were to close that seed round, what would be that piece of advice that you would give to your younger self with everything that youve learned having this journey ahead of you? For us, I think they fully understand the entrepreneurial journey and were really excited to have them on board. Anthemos Georgiades: Yeah. I mean at the end of the day, building and scaling companies especially when youre at the early stages is all about survival and its all about learning to be with each other behind the trenches and really going to war and having each others backs. Anthemos Georgiades: Yeah. And the biggest change in the series C I just raised versus in the early days is having a CFO. As CEO, Anthemos has raised $39.2 million in venture capital from investors including Kleiner Perkins, Goodwater Capital, Breyer Capital and Foxhaven Asset Management, including a Series B round in Oct. 2016 when many start-ups were struggling. 77% of you were interested in a @zumper flex living pass 1.5 yrs ago Since then we - Added 500K+ flex listings - Launched a search UX for flex rentals We're now launching an MVP of Zumper Pass - a one & done subscription. So you know I think Axle Springer very used to appraising companies that match their scale. Got it. So watching board members from the early investments are [19:38] who now runs Good Water but was originally Kleiner and then Eric [19:42] from Kleiner and theyre both experts at product market set. Prior to his work at Zumper, Georgiades worked at the Boston . You know marketplaces and liquidity is king like you were pointing to finding what you need in the shortest period of time because otherwise theyre going to go elsewhere. So I guess in your guys case, how do you deal with the egos and then more importantly how did you define the responsibilities early on so that you kind of have that healthy culture going on? So for Zumper our vision as I mentioned was to make renting an apartment as easy as booking a hotel and so instead of going in with just an idea, I built like a really crappy version of the end game that I wanted to build. So I guess in just to like follow up on that, what in your mind and obviously in what youve seen creates really that magical relationship between cofounders? Alejandro: So I guess like I have one thing to follow up on this. So our CFO is fantastic and what he was able to bring to the series C was real credibility where I meet the investors, get them excited about our vision and our story and then they spend hours with the CFO on the second or third meeting digesting our historical financial as were talking about where were headed. There could be investors who are fantastic. I think at that stage it makes sense. And your cap table I mean as I was reviewing I just felt as I was looking at the Oscars of Silicon Valley, the red carpet. Now my cofounders were phenomenal in bringing them to meetings. "While many markets cool off during the winter, Miami is still posting month-over-month increases. Youre supposed to try six things that dont work. Youll get terms sheets and yeses hopefully quicker than that but this process takes a while and as the money increases and a few rounds become more complicated, it can take more than three months as well. Anthemos Georgiades. We didnt go that route because I have the network but if I didnt have the network and some people have the network and still do it, they are really good cheap in to getting scaled quickly. I kind of looked through in Crunchbase which connections I have into which fund. We saw it would take three to six months to integrate Pat Mapper and their backend that engineering project we worked really hard and quickly just over a year to integrate so we underestimated like how much work was required to integrate them by 3x. Youre right that is wrong advice. Got it. I think if you set these expectations from the very beginning that are super important. So I learned a lot from a few companies that I loved, a few companies that I thought are doing crazy things I learned so much. At scale you get to do that and have those teams. Got it. Had worked at the Boston Consulting Group. Got it. So you acquire not long ago Pat Mapper and how did this come together? And then when I moved out to America, Russel was software engineer at Google and I had no technical background so I basically hit up my network for anyone with a technical background living in the US who might be interested in joining and Russel and I really hit it off and he was the perfect cofounder. For us, I think they fully understand the entrepreneurial journey and were really excited to have them on board. So we solved it to the first two years purely by getting landlords on board through various kind of product strategy and so our growth cuts for the first two years that we raised the [27:41] were purely about landlords and listing. I mean youre doing various jobs, head of sales, head of finance, head of fundraising, head of like DZ. Im so glad I did it. At college in the UK, Ive had like multiple [00:58] renting apartments. Got it. And so as you mature you look for a different kind of investor and that naturally tends to happen. So we want to be the first ever kind of full stack rental platform for long term leases and we monetize that two ways. The other large investor in this round [20:05] scale so once you have product market set, how do you scale that? So I think three months is an efficient round. Everyone in Boston, everyone in New York were straight nos and [25:15] didnt get second meetings but then a month later we came to Silicon Valley and we found a much better product market set for the kind of investor who was prepared to come early and invest early and we got a lot of yeses very quickly. How flat is the company? Well, first of all, your point about quashing the egg and shooting the chicken. How did you find these investors? And I mean its quite a few cofounders. We both wanted to be entrepreneurs. Theres never like an exact number you need like when Uber raised money or you know Zillow raised money, theres never like a number they have to be at. Remember to unlock for free the pitch deck template that is being used by founders around the world to raise millions below. But I guess you were saying then here the shift, kind of like shifted more from like growth of users perhaps retention to more kind of like deep revenue growth. Because I speak with a ton of founders that are perhaps opening up the possibility of bringing on corporations and I think that you need to really do it right. How many landlords did we have on the site? And we built this website using an outsource development shop in Europe that just tested one assumption of the end game which was can we get users in 2011, 2012 just as mobile was coming online to apply and close apartments from their phone. And we were talking about the $46 million round which was the C round, C as in cat and basically what you were talking about I mean what Ive seen is that you guys have shifted a little bit the strategy. Anthemos Georgiades: Yeah. Anthemos Georgiades: Yeah. Just out of curiosity, Anthemos, like how many nos did you get for example on your seed round if you have to count it? The one unifying theme in every fundraising Ive run is momentum. It was incredibly difficult. So I wouldnt be too picky early. You can filter down by city and . In the early days you as the CEO you are the fundraiser, you are the effective CFO, youre the head of sales and you kind of have to do the whole thing. Budget in my opinion perhaps should be allocated to something else. In terms of investors, I guess two comments. So all good companies have multiple offers on the table. You can set the expectations and then see what happens and if its not a good fit upfront, you can go with the different option on the table. Its so hard to get marketplaces liquidity so correct, the beautiful thing as you know is when you have it, it took us three years to get to that, it just runs and you just grow naturally when you have both sides but its so hard to get to it. One is I wouldnt be too pressured about it too early. Since 2012, Anth has grown Zumper to over 100 employees and raised $90 million in venture capital for the company. Got it. How much respect is there? I think the startups end up wasting a lot of cash that could really extend runway but thats a different conversation. And so I finally just gave in and thought no one is going to build this. They were [sexy 23:47] company and really fantastic fundraisers but the rounds just take a long time, due diligence take a long time. So cofounders are difficult especially if youre not technical as really hard to find a good technical cofounder but the great thing is once you do and it takes a long time, they are able to attract the next generation of talent in to the company and thats how you kind of build your engineering team out. Zumper Board Member Related Hubs If you dont have those connections, I think this is where like a lot of these accelerators and incubators, Y Combinator or Techstars or Launch are really good where you can apply. Alejandro: And did you diversify this responsibility with the other cofounders or was there one of you guys that has always been leading the chart on the financing side? Like many of our most successful entrepreneurs, Anthemos Georgiades was drawn into startup life to solving a burning problem. Yeah. And talking about hustling the network, was there any because I mean those networks that you have I think the network of Harvard is really fantastic and then you know the BCG as well but is there like any process that you followed to really like leverage the network? Raising money first, marketplace businesses is still really difficult and Ive raised $90 million and Im still saying it is difficult. So we have several million users using our platform every month now which is great and next year we wanted tens of millions of users a month and were poised to doing that. Like what have you seen that really works? Really, really nice to have you here and excited for the chat that we have ahead here. Anthemos Georgiades: Yeah. So I guess like I have one thing to follow up on this. So how did you meet your cofounders? How did you find these investors? Anthemos Georgiades: Yeah, I mean BCG I think you get access to the 23 year olds CEOs who had been working for 40 years and kind of crazy in consulting you take the shortcut in your careers to being in the board room.
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